Matewan Oral History Project Collection
Sc2003-135

Stella Presley Interview

Becky Bailey: 2:20, June 12th, 1989. This is Rebecca Bailey for the Matewan Development Center. I'm interviewing Stella Presley. (at her home in North Matewan)

B: Mrs. Presley if you don't mind the first question I'll ask you is when and where you were born?

Stella Presley: I was born at Meador about seven miles from here. October 17th, nineteen, three.

B: Okay. October seventh?

SP: October 17th,

B: seventh

SP: nineteen and three.

B: Now who were your parents?

SP: Uh...L. C. and Martha Browning Kiser. L. C. my father went by the name L. C.

B: Is that L. C. like E.L...?

SP: L. for Luther, C. for Cecil.

B: Okay, L. C. Kiser. Okay. Were they from this area?

SP: My father was from Charlotte, North Carolina. And my mother was from here.

B: Okay. Who were her people?

SP: Uh...she was a Browning. And uh...and her mother...her mother was uh...naturally was a Browning and then her mother was uh...Varney. I'm telling you this because my great grandmother was uh... sister to Devil Anse of the Hatfield and McCoy feud.

B: Okay. Now which grandmother was this?

SP: That was my mother's uh...my mother's uh...grand...my great grandmother naturally my mother's grandmother.

B: And do you know her name?

SP: The great grandmother?

B: Yes ma'am.

SP: Her name was Mattie Varney.

B: Did you know her? Was she living when....

SP: Yes...yes uh...yes I knew her.

B: Did she ever tell you anything about Devil Anse?

SP: No...no I was...I was very young when she died and when my grandmother died too. My mother told me about Devil Anse.

B: What did she tell you?

SP: Well only that...that we were related and that he was a very...very kind man. You probably know that he got the name Devil Anse because he was an officer in the Confederate army and he got rid of so many Yankees. It was the reason they called him Devil Anse. He was a very kind uh...mountain man.

B: Did your mother know anything about uh...the feud why it took place...

SP: Not...not first hand of...you've already found probably that...that it happened...some of it happened right here at Matewan. Some of the killings was here at Matewan, you've already learned that I'm sure?

B: Yes ma'am. But I was just wondering if there was anything that was talked about in the family about whether things that were written down in history books were true or...

SP: Well uh...most of the books that I've read about the...the Hatfield and McCoy Feud was at least partly true. Now I knew...I had a great uncle whose, some of his fingers was shot off in that...in the Hatfield and McCoy Feud. He was uh...trying to burn down uh...he was trying to burn down uh...a Hatfield...a McCoy home I mean here in Kentucky, and its seems that in the process somebody shot off his fingers. That's...that's the one thing I remember about...he lived close to us.

B: Do you know his name?

SP: Uh...Tom Mitchell. He was uh...great uncle...great uncle of mine.

B: Is this your...on your mother's side?

SP: Yes that's on my mothers side. I didn't know my father's uh...relatives much. I met one of his brothers I...I uh...

B: Do you know any other stories about the feud or after the feud?

SP: Not...not too much uh...Johnse Hatfield who figured in the feud I believe they...a movie showed him as uh...as a lover of a Hatfield women. Now he was uh...uh...surveyor. And he lived in our community at uh...uh...short time. I rem....I met him...I knew him. And then of course later...we...there...there was the movie...his name was Johnse Hatfield.

B: Right.

SP: I...I suppose he was Devil Anse's son.

B: I think the...the movie that your talking about it...it made his romance with Rosanna (Roseanne) McCoy seem like Romeo and Juliet.

SP: Um-hum.

B: Do you know whether or not that was uh...

SP: That was probably the one. The most interesting about that movie to me was looking at the old timers...the Hatfield and McCoys that come to see it. That was more interesting than the movie... than the movie itself.

B: What...what was their reaction to the movie?

SP: I don't know I didn't uh...I didn't talk to them but...but naturally uh...there are...just like in this Matewan...this last movie called "Matewan" uh...a lot of it was true to what really happened and a lot of it had to be made up. So when...in this love story I suppose there's more of it made up than would have been in the Matewan movie.

B: Do you remember when that movie showed uh...the...the movie about uh...

SP: Showed here in Matewan?

B: about...right...about the Hatfield and McCoy romance?

SP: Oh...oh...I...I...I...I...wouldn't know but I'd say maybe... maybe at least uh...thirty, or forty years ago.

B: Okay.

SP: Showed here in Matewan.

B: Getting back to your father, do you know why your father came here from Charlotte, North Carolina?

SP: No I don't but uh...but he came back in the eighteen hundreds. He came in the eighteen hundreds. Uh...before there was a railroad here. He came at about the time when Thacker was the...the biggest place in Mingo County. Williamson was a corn field and Thacker was... was the biggest area...big as...well it wasn't a city but the biggest community in the county.

B: Do you know why Thacker was the biggest town?

SP: Coal mining.

B: Coal mining. Do you know what year your father came?

SP: I don't know what year he came but...but he and my mother married in eighteen, ninety-two.

B: Okay. Do you know when either of them were born?

SP: When who?

B: When either one of your parent were born?

SP: No I...I don't. I have it down. I...I can find it, but...but I don't...I don't remember that.

B: Okay. And what was your father's occupation when he moved here...when...what did he do?

SP: The first I know of he worked around the mines. And uh...and some of his last years he ran a power house for Red Jacket Coal Company after they opened up a mine here. Uh...when he first went to work here he...he...he walked over a hill and went to Thacker and worked...the mines and worked...they had mines at Thacker before they had them here close to us.

B: When you say he walked over the hill...

SP: He walked...

B: Was...was there a road?

SP: Well just a mountain trail.

B: Did he tell you how people got around here was...your saying this was before the railroad came through?

SP: They...uh...I remember of him talking about uh...teams of mules hauling some...hauling some sort of boats. The mules was actually on land but hauling the boats on the water. I don't know what they called that.

B: Was that a canal?

SP: Well Tug River. That was Tug River.

B: Okay, I wanted to make sure my machine was running. Uh...so you were born in 1903, were you your parents first child?

SP: No...no uh...no there were...there were really ten of us. One sister died before I was born, but nine of us grew up. So I was one of the middle children.

B: Okay. How many boys and how many girls were there?

SP: Six uh..six boys and...and four girls. As I...

B: Did...

SP: As I said only nine of us grew to be adults.

B: Do you know why your sister died?

SP: She had scarlet fever. She was about four years old.

B: Uh...who helped your mother with the deliveries?

SP: Never uh...oh a doctor the last uh...she had doctor the last children but uh...before that neighbor...neighboring woman. What did they call them?

B: A mid-wife?

SP: Yes.

B: Ok.

SP: One of my great aunts was uh...mid-wife.

B: Do you remember her name?

SP: Nancy Mitchell. Wife of Tom Mitchell who had his fingers shot off.

B: Did she just help woman in her...in her own family or would she help the other women?

SP: Women in the community.

B: Do you remember her?

SP: Yes...yes I remember her well.

B: Okay. Did she help women for free or did people give her things?

SP: I never heard of any money passing. I never heard of it. They may have but...but I didn't uh...know. I didn't know about it.

B: Do you remember her coming to help any of your brother or sisters being born?

SP: No.

B: Do you...do you remember uh...was the doctor who helped with he last few deliveries was he uh...company doctor or...

SP: Yes he was a company doctor.

B: Okay. And his name?

SP: Doctor Reed. R.E.E.D.

B: Okay. You mentioned before we started that you went to college did you go to school around here before you went to college?

SP: I...I went to uh...to a one room school. And then uh...later I went to high school at uh...Delbarton. I went to Burch High School, and I finished high school in the summer time.

B: Why was that?

SP: Well at...at the beginning there wasn't a Matewan High School and then I begun to teach school. I took teachers examination and I begun to teach school naturally before I finished...even before I finished high school. I finished high school and then I went to uh...Concord College. And...and later to Marshall where I got my Masters degree. And then I told you I was up to the university a couple of summers after that.

B: Right. Uh...how did you find out about Concord College?

SP: I suppose uh...some of the neighbors had gone to Concord College I suppose.

B: What did you have to do to....to go to school there? Did you have to apply to admissions?

SP: As I remember it I just...I just went and entered.

B: Ok.

SP: I...as I...as I...in those days I don't think you had to apply for admissions...

B: How much...

SP: And then of course it was a small college then.

B: About how small?

SP: Well uh...one term I was there was...it was...there were nine hundred students one term I was there.

B: And when did you...when did you go to school there?

SP: I started uh...as I told you uh...nineteen, twenty...I got off the train the day before the Matewan Massacre as they called it. I got off the same train that...that uh...Baldwin Felts detectives got off of...off of the next day.

B: So had you...had you been in school long when you came...

SP: Now that was...

B: in on that trip?

SP: that was probably the first time I went. I probably was sixteen years old. I got the measles there and uh...and some how my mother found out about it. I wrote my boyfriend and uh...and his aunt got a hold of the letter and went and told my mother and doctor Reed told my mother that...that I'd ruin my eyes in school better bring...make me come home. And...of course when she found out I'd had the measles I was back in college doing fine and I didn't want to come home, but I did of course.

B: Did you have a doctor at school that took care of you or did you just?

SP: No I had the measles there...there wasn't any complications.

B: Where did you stay when you were at school?

SP: I stayed in a private home.

B: How did you pay for your tuition and then...

SP: My father...my father paid it.

B: Do you remember how much he paid?

SP: No I don't.

B: Okay.

SP: I remember one of my brothers gave me twenty dollars. That was the...that was the money I had besides my tuition and my board.

B: Do you know how much it cost for you to stay in...at the boarding house?

SP: No I don't remember that.

B: Okay. Alright. So you came home the day before the massacre because your mother told you to come home because you had the measles.

SP: Yes.

B: And how long did you stay home after that?

SP: I stayed home period I didn't go back. I didn't go back until... until later another year I suppose.

B: Do you remember where you were the...the next day when...when they massacre happened do you remember hearing about it?

SP: No I don't remember I suppose it was in the paper.

B: They uh...some people have told us that uh...people celebrated in town that night...the night of the massacre...when they took the bodies away that there was a celebration. Did you ever hear anything about that?

SP: No I didn't...no I didn't. We lived seven miles away from Matewan.

B: Did you know Sid Hatfield or Ed Chambers?

SP: Uh...I knew them when I saw them.

B: They seemed like they were colorful characters. Did any one ever tell you about them?

SP: Yes uh...naturally after this happened we heard a great deal about them. But as far as I knew they were fine outstanding citizens. I never heard anything uh...uh...I never heard anything detrimental about them.

B: How did your father feel about the union?

SP: He along with practically everybody in this county was pro-union. They were for the union. Practically everybody. My father was a working man and practically everybody in this county were...were hard working people. You know it was mountaineers to make a living in this mountain country. Usually you had to work. My father uh...raised a crop of course even while he was...while he was working around the mines he...he still raised uh...raised their own potatoes and we had corn, and of course all kinds of vegetables. We had uh...a huge garden, and uh...I believe our place was something like forty-five acres.

B: Where did your father get that land?

SP: My mother inherited her part of uh...of her mother's land. Then my father bought out several of my mother's brothers and sisters bought their part of the land and that's how we come to have the whole forty-five...something like forty-five acres.

B: Why did they sell your...your father the land, do you know?

SP: I don't know but uh...my mother's brother and...and my father bought all of the land....all the others sold their parts. At one time our family owned uh...uh...the whole head of this creek, Mate Creek. Uh...Uncle Tom Mitchell as we called him uh..had uh...his wife had inherited a good bit, but he's got rid, he sold and lived in rented property. He sold his part as did some of the others of the family.

B: What did you father say about the union?

SP: I don't remember him saying much about it, but...but my older brother, Pauline at the bank...her father was an organizer here and uh...naturally after he uh...interested working for the union the coal company would not hire him any more. And uh...he...he become in charge of the mine workers in this area he had his office in Williamson. And then at one time he sent to Detroit...he went to Detroit as an organizer for the C.I.O.

B: Uh...that would be Charlie Kiser?

SP: Yes. And I think his name appears in the...in different books uh...that written about the mine war in this area.

B: Right. I've heard uh...some people say that many union organizers became communists, do you know...

SP: Never...

B: about that?

SP: I never did know...know of any of them that became communists. I never...never heard of a one that become communists.

B: Did you father have difficulty working after the...after the mine wars?

SP: No...no my brother was the one in our family that was active, really active in the union. Of course all of our family as...I'd say practically everybody in Mingo County was pro-union and I'd say still are. The majority of them still are because they're all working people mostly.

B: Right. Did your brother talk to you about uh...what went on in the union meetings?

SP: No...no we never did know whether he...we don't...we never did know whether he shot any gun or anything happened. Some people... somebody testified at the trial that he carried uh...that they saw him with a gun. That was the only testimony that I heard of that linked him with even of having the gun. I don't know what happened. But he and practically everybody in Matewan that was anybody were in jail. I believe there were about twenty-two of them that was in jail, possibly more than a month, until they had the trial. Uh...my brother's wife and I were at the jail...I was at the jail just a lot during that time. But uh...when they had their trial of course the men all come clear.

B: What was the uh...what was the atmosphere of the jail like when they were all there?

SP: Well as far as I knew it was more less jolly. I didn't uh...I don't remember anybody being saddened or anything they were all neighbors and friends together from here at Matewan. And I think they...they really from that time in jail they got to be very close friends. Now I...I just happened to live next door to the camp where the Baldwin Felts detective threw the people out of their houses. As you go from here to Matewan you'll pass this camp it was at that time it was called Stony Mountain Camp. And I remember one woman was pregnant when they come along and threw all their furniture out after it was out in the rain and out in the weather.

B: And how did the people feel about that?

SP: Angry...terribly angry.

B: How...did she get to move back into her home?

SP: I would say later...I would say later on but the strike lasted a good while. I don't remember how long it lasted but it lasted a good while and uh...I would say that it probably didn't get back...I didn't live right here then...there was a tent community here inside of my house...that is if you move these houses that have been built since. There was a tent community with uh...I...I expect a dozen tents in this bottom right across here from my house. Of course I lived at Meador then seven miles away from here. And we had a tent family on our property.

B: Do you know was this little tent community right here did it have a name did they call it any...

SP: I don't think it had a post office then. I moved here in twenty-eight and we've had a post office uh...just about it...ever since I've been here I don't know whether it had a post office at that time or not.

B: Do you know any of the families of, that lived in that little tent community right here?

SP: The one family that I remember...the two families that I remember uh...most of the family have passed on there...there dead. Uh...some...some of the people that were my neighbors when I first moved here had lived in the tent colony. But if...I don't remember anybody that's still living that lived in the camp colony.

B: What did they tell you about having to live in the tent colonies?

SP: Well uh...I...I knew well...one...one family that lived uh...an aunt of mine lived in...on our property and the tent was one great big...on big uh...one big room. And that was all they had was that one big room. But it was...it was really large. Just like the pioneers some of the...my grandmother's house was two rooms and a kitchen but if you measured the floor plans by the houses built now a days it...there was as much room as a five room house. They...they were built big. And the movie Matewan that's one thing that wasn't true to the...to the strike happen-ings, is that it showed little tiny tents. But these tents were all big enough for a whole family. There was no little tiny tents.

B: Where did those tents come from?

SP: I don't know...I don't...I don't know.... they were white. I...I suppose union headquarters provided them no doubt.

B: Did they people get much assistance from the union?

SP: My brother was secretary of the union at one time...the treasurer...treasurer I'd say and I wrote the checks for him, I finally had almost...something like a wart there on my hand from writing checks. A...A family of just a man and his wife they got a...they called it a bread check of two dollars and a half. Then if they had one child they usually uh...drew five dollars a week. And seems to me that the highest...no matter how many children they had was something like twenty-two fifty.

B: Was this during the strike of the early twenties?

SP: That was...yes that was during the strike. I don't know how long I wrote those checks but uh...but I...I wrote them for a good while for my brother who was treasurer of the...of that local.

B: If you don't mind me asking why did you write the checks?

SP: I...I don't know what he was doing at the time. I don't know what he was doing but I did it for him. I'm pretty sure that I signed his name. I...I don't know just what he was doing.

B: What was...

SP: Of course the strike was one and probably he was doing everything he could to...for the strike. For the miners.

B: What was his name?

SP: Charlie Kiser.

B: Charlie. Okay, this was Charlie. Okay. Uh...do you know any specific things that he did during the strike? What...what kind of things...when you say he was busy what kind of thing would he do?

SP: I don't know unless he was going to union meeting and trying to keep up the morale and that sort of thing. I don't just uh...I don't remember just what...just what he did. I was uh...as I told you I was about sixteen at the time that this Matewan Massacre happened and uh...I don't remember how long it lasted. I don't know how long the strike lasted. You may have found that out from somebody else. But I don't know how long.

B: You say you had written your boyfriend, did...was your boyfriend involved in....

SP: Was he what?

B: Was he involved in the strike? Was he a miner?

SP: He was probably too young to been working in the mines. Lets see he was...I married him later he was five...five years older than I was...he probably was working. If I was uh...if I was sixteen he was twenty-one he was probably was working. He probably was striking.

B: Okay. Was this Mr. Presley?

SP: Yes.

B: Okay. When did you marry? Lets get back to you.

SP: October the 25th, 1926.

B: Okay. Where were you married?

SP: At home, at my mother's.

B: Were you married by a minister?

SP: Yes. I was married by my great uncle uh,...Lark Varney.

B: Okay. Were you a religious person?

SP: We were all...we were all...yes. We didn't have a church in our community at that time but...but the preaching was done in the school house. And we were all brought...we were all brought up to be faithful Christians.

B: What was your denomination?

SP: The Church of Christ was the only church in our community at that time.

B: Okay. Were these the services that you attended at the school?

SP: Um-hum?

B: Okay. Let's see. Uh...what did you do between 1920, and 1926?

SP: I started to teach school in...in '22 I believe. And uh...I taught school and went to school...I taught school in winter and went to school in the summer. Of course maybe I told ya I took teachers' examination. Uh...this first year we had...there was three teachers' examinations and I...I took the two last ones and uh...the first year I taught school I taught on a second grade certificate. Then next year a first class certificate. And then after that I went to summer school and finished high school and went to Concord College and onto Marshall. And then to the university a couple of summers.

B: Was your husband an educated man?

SP: No. He was a coal miner.

B: Did he work at Red Jacket?

SP: Yes.

B: Okay.

B: On Mrs. Presley's parents birth, her mother was born July 8, 1872 and her father was born November the 10th, 1868. Is that right?

SP: That's right.

B: Okay. I think...let me...Mrs. Presley I think one thing I really would like to uh...ask you about now is what kind of classes did you take at Concord College? Were you in teacher training?

SP: I was in teacher training...

B: Okay.

SP: the whole time.

B: So what kind of classes did you have to take to...to train as a teacher?

SP: Well you had to have music and art and so much science and... and so much history and so forth. I really...I really don't remember. It's...it's been a long time really.

B: What kind of schools did you teach in?

SP: My first uh...my first year I taught in a one room school and taught my own family I think much to their sorrow. And then...and then later I taught in different schools. Uh...I taught in Matewan Grade School for a long time. And I taught at Red Jacket the last fifteen years that I taught I was principal of Red Jacket Grade School and most that time I taught the sixth grade. Uh...before I went to Red Jacket I was principal at Sprigg school about a seven room...seven room school at that time. And before that I had taught at Red Jacket other years and taught at Matewan, taught several different places in the county. I taught forty-nine years in all.

B: So forty-nine years...what was...from when to when do you remember?

SP: From something like 1922 till...till nineteen, seventy. I retired in 1970 in May.

B: Okay. Now I've interviewed one lady who said that women that were married couldn't be teachers?

SP: I was hired...I was hired to teach half a year...one year that probably was in the Depression. But a board member came to school about Christmas time which was about half of the year that I...and he told me that I was gonna finish the whole year so I never did teach just half a year. That year we were more less forced to buy football to support the team here. And uh...some teacher wanted to tell the board member that the...asking her to buy season ticket that she's buy half a ticket because she only hired for four months. With eight months school then. But I never did just teach four months. I...I always taught the whole....whole term.

B: So they would actually hire teachers sometimes to just teach half the year?

SP: Yes uh...yes didn't happen very long. I don't uh...I don't think right...I don't think right now of anybody that taught just half a year. They may have...they may have decided that when half the year of the year was over they didn't have anybody to take our places or something and they may have not had to teach just half the year. I don't remember.

B: Uh...you taught and were a principal for quite a while were there ever any men teachers that you worked with? Or were they all women?

SP: Oh yes...yes I had uh...yes I had a couple of men teachers. Uh...when I taught at Sprigg. When I taught at Red Jacket they were all women teachers then. But I had...had a couple of men teachers...men didn't stay with it. Now there were five in our family who were teachers. But the men in the family did not stay with it. Uh...my sister and I both stayed we...we remained teachers. She didn't teach as long as I did. But...but we were the only ones that stayed with it. The men probably didn't make enough money at that time to continue to teach.

B: What schools were you principal of?

SP: Just uh...Red Jacket and Sprigg and Meador at one time I was principal of a two room school.

B: Who hired you to...to be uh...principal had you been a teacher where ever you...?

SP: Yes I had been a teacher uh...for a long time and uh...I've... when I...when I...after I graduated from Marshall I went back another year and got an elementary principal certificate, uh... about that time you could not be principal of uh...of uh...larger school unless you had a principal certificate.

B: What was your masters degree in?

SP: Education.

B: Education. How did you uh...pay to get that degree?

SP: How did I pay?

B: Um-hum. Did your husband pay...did you and your husband pay for it?

SP: I...I...I...had been teaching all that time. All of my schooling was done in the summer time. I never did go to the winter term so I used my own money after I taught one year. After I taught one year I was really rich you know. I...I made sixty-five dollars a month. By the way my older brother taught for forty-five dollars a month.

B: At the same time?

SP: No, he taught years before I did.

B: Okay. When you worked with...with men when they were teaching did they make more money than...than you or do you know?

SP: Oh no...no we were paid...when I first started to teach high school teachers with the very same qualifications made more than we did. They made almost twice what a grade school teacher made. But a few years after...after I started to teach we were paid according to our...our certificates. And we made...if we had to same certification we made the same amount of money. Uh...salary.

B: So that...was this a graded certificate system. I mean was there first class, second class?

SP: Yes.

B: Ok.

SP: Yes uh...I taught one year on a second class certificate. And uh...and then after that I had first class certificate. We...we use to then I got a standard normal after I had the first class certificate then I had got uh...what was called a standard normal certificate. Then after that I had what they called a ninety-six hour which paid a little more. And then when you got your degree that paid still a little bit more. And when I...when I quit after teaching a lifetime...and with a masters degree plus fifteen hours we were paid for those extra hours I...I never did make no more than nine hundred a month.

B: You say you went to school in the summer time and you got your masters degree at Marshall, did you stay up there during the summer time?

SP: Yes I stayed up there and come home on weekends.

B: Um-hum. How did your husband feel about that?

SP: Well uh...he didn't uh...he didn't complain about it. I...I have to give him credit for it...for being willing for me to go on to school. I have to give him a good bit of credit. Of course I went on my own money, but uh...the fact that he was willing and enabled me to go on and finish school.

B: How did uh...other people feel about you continuing to work after you married? Was that a typical...situation?

SP: I think not...I think my husband was embarrassed when I...when I first...when we were first married because uh...not many women at that time...not many women worked. I think he was more or less embarrassed for me to work at first, but then finally it become common place for all women to work. So just like it is now a lot of times women have to work to keep up uh...a house it takes two with uh...you know with the prices now a days.

B: Did you all have children?

SP: No. Uh...we had been married fourteen years before I was pregnant and then uh...after I lost the child I had to have surgery.

B: Did you miscarry or was the child....

SP: Yes. I miscarried at three months. And then I had to have uh...uh...both tubes uh...I had to have both tubes removed and uh...one ovary. I only had part of an ovary.

B: Why was that? Did you have cancer?

SP: No uh...I don't...I don't know why....I don't what was the trouble. But I...I was...went to school that day and uh...I begun my pains just like I usually have and...and I went....we had a hospital here at Matewan, and I went to that hospital. And uh...I went...I left school at noon that day with pain in my sides and... and then of course I miscarried and after that I didn't get back to school for several months. I...I was in the hospital with a miscarriage and...and then the doctor sent me home to get able to have surgery. And I had surgery....that's why I was out of school a few months.

B: Did they tell you why you had that surgery after the miscarriage?

SP: Well I...I had uh...I come home after the miscarriage...I come home and laid in bed ten days like the doctor told me. But uh... something...I got a terrible fever. And I must of...oh the doctor told me I had a cyst on my ovary. He said as big as a grapefruit. Which I thought was...sounded impossible. I supposed it was flat, as flat around...so I had to have surgery and had to have all those tubes removed. I said all those tubes I...I had both tubes removed.

B: How did your husband feel about your...your surgery and everything? Did you all talk about it?

SP: Well my neighbor was telling me one day uh...when I was real sick...before I went back to the hospital the second time...my neighbor said he was sitting there in the bedroom floor crying. Sitting there against the wall...my neighbor told me and said I looked sort of green. That was after I had miscarried. I must of had an infection.

B: So you say uh...you paid for your schooling with the money that you made teaching, uh...how did your husband feel about you having this...this money that you had made for yourself? Did you all have a joint bank account or? SP: We always had a joint back account. And we never....we never worried about money we...we uh...we built uh...we never did live in a rented house. I lived at home for a while because uh...now that didn't come up....but I had a Appendicitis. We were married the twenty-fifty of October and the nineteenth of December I was operated on for a Appendicitis. And I also had Peritonitis. And uh...that may have been one reason that I had trouble with my tubes. I don't know whether that was the reason I....I miscarried or what, but uh...but any how I was sick a long time then. I was out of school a good while after I had a Appendicitis.

B: So you lived at home while...while you were recuperating?

SP: Yes. I lived at home for lets see from October until the... lets see we moved...we moved here in '28. I was married in '26 and we moved here in April of '28. We built the house next door to us here. And then in '55 we built this house.

B: You say you and your husband traveled after both of you retired or after he retired?

SP: Before we retired. He had two weeks vacation in summer. And uh...we uh...most...most of our traveling was done when he had two weeks vacation. After we were both retired we didn't travel too much. We went to Myrtle Beach a great deal. And then after I lost him in eight-one I...I've been going to Myrtle Beach myself every winter. It's like a second home to me.

B: Do you rent a place down there or...

SP: Yes I stay at a small motel. Uh...some winters I stay down there three months, but uh...last winter I only stayed two months I thought three months was sort of long.

B: How did your husband die? What did he die of?

SP: He...he had stayed in the mines too long we didn't realize what we'd...what it was doing to him. And he had black lung and had a terrible time with breathing. We didn't...we didn't realize when he was working in the mines all that time what it was doing to his lungs.

B: Okay. When did he retire?

SP: I believe about '62.

B: You said earlier that in your travels you and he saw all of the states except for Alaska and Hawaii. Why did you travel so?

SP: Well as I said after we had uh...traveled a good bit we... we...we had been to a good bit we...we...we had been to about half of the states just visiting friends or just taking off in summer. After we had saw that we'd been like half we...we decided to go to the rest to do the rest on purpose. So uh...we traveled...we tried we started to Alaska too one time we were gonna...we were gonna drive West and then fly and I remember we started from Castro, Wyoming and we were told their that we could possibly get a flight to Alaska to another town so we flew over into Wyoming...I mean flew over into Montana and we found out it was time of year...it was around forth of July and we could not get passage to Alaska so we never did...we never did get there. And we...we didn't want to drive because some of the literature we got said that you had to reinforce your gas tank keep the road from knocking holes in it so...so we just...we were afraid to drive. So we never did get to Alaska or Hawaii.

B: You said you were in Cuba when one of them became a state?

SP: Yes when Alaska become a state. We drove fifty West and flew over to Cuba.

B: When was this do you remember?

SP: I think it was about 1959.

B: Why did you go to Cuba?

SP: Well I don't know we just uh...it was close...it was close is only ninety minutes from Key West. And uh...I don't know why...I don't know just why we went. But it was just before Castro took over. Somebody ask me he said weren't you afraid to go to Cuba. And I said I didn't know enough about it to be afraid.

B: What was it like?

SP: Well we like it...we wanted to go out in the country and see how the poor people lived see we flew into Havana and stayed in a motel there in Havana. Uh...we wanted to go out in the country and see how the common....the poor people lived but the uh...people who took us out in the taxi they didn't trust us. They made us buy the gasoline for the trip before we went, and my husband didn't trust them. He took his money out of his pocket book and put some of it in his shoe. He didn't trust them either. So they only took us out to an agriculture farm and we didn't get to see the...we didn't get to see how the common people in Cuba lived. We just saw Havana so we didn't...we didn't learn too much about it. But they didn't allow us to make pictures they took a camera...they didn't allow us to make pictures in certain buildings. We made a few pictures but they didn't allow us to make them. See just before Castro took over and I didn't realize it was that close to him taking over when we went.

B: Was it just the two of you?

SP: Yes.

B: Okay. Did you...did the people speak English or did you all speak...

SP: No we didn't speak English uh...they...they...somebody spoke English in some of the places. No...no we didn't speak uh...going up in the elevator I said something to some man and he just threw up his hands he didn't...he didn't speak English, and I couldn't talk to him. When we went down to Mexico the...they had somebody in the stores that spoke English so we could...we could talk to them.

B: So you've been to Mexico too?

SP: Yes we..we went...we didn't go very far down in Mexico we were down there a short ways in Mexico. We went into...down at a little town in the...in Mexico it was called Mexicala and California was called Calxico. It's a little border town.

B: How did you feel after your trip to Cuba when you heard the news about Castro?

SP: Well the...I didn't know...I didn't know too much about it. I hadn't read the paper too much. Until somebody ask me if I wasn't afraid to go to Cuba, and I said I didn't know nothing about it to be afraid. But uh...we could tell there was uh...-there was uh... trouble brewing because the people at the hotel uh...we could feel the tenseness there at the motel there where we stayed.

B: Who took your cameras? Who would take the cameras from you?

SP: Well somebody in the public building that we started in they said we couldn't uh...said we couldn't take pictures. They took them 'til we come out of the building.

B: Something just came to mind about your brother, did your brother ever meet people like say John L. Lewis? Did he ever tell you about meeting....

SP: I think so. Uh...he went to the uh...he went to their annual meetings. Went to Washington, D.C. I'm sure he knew...I'm sure he knew John L. Lewis well. And Mother Jones, I'm sure he...he knew Mother Jones and John L. Lewis well because he went to the different meetings. Washington or where ever they were held. He was uh...delegate or you know of something to the conventions.

B: Did you ever meet Mother Jones?

SP: No.

B: What did you know about her?

SP: Well all...all I knew that she was in the union papers and so on and...and in the daily papers but she was backing the uh... min...coal miners a hundred percent. She was in favor of the working man.

B: I've read in a place that uh...a coal miner said that she was the worst woman for cussing that he'd ever heard. Did you ever hear that about her?

SP: No I never did hear that. But I can...I can imagine with her traveling with all kinds of rough...rough men and all sorts of men, I mean speaking to her. She went about speaking to a lots of coal miners. I can see that maybe she would...some of that would rub... some of the rough miners' talk would rub off on her. I could see that.

B: Did...did miners talk rough amongst themselves?

SP: Well not..I never heard it. I never did hear...hear anything...maybe they didn't talk in front of women. But I never did hear them talk roughly you know. But I never hear that about Mother Jones but in actually to...to reach people I guess you had to be uh...a little unusual in your speeches, don't you imagine?

B: Um-hum. Probably.

SP: You had to be a little unusual to get everybody's attention.

B: That's true. That's true. Um...did the...did the other miners ever say anything to your husband about you teaching in and being better educated than he was?

SP: No...no it...it didn't uh...it didn't bother my husband or me either because most of the people in this area were coal miners. Uh...my husband's father was a Methodist minister and uh...very self-educated very highly educated to be...to be self educated and uh...Everett's mother and my mother were real good friends. Uh... they....they lived close to us when I was just a child. And he and my brothers were great pals so he could come to our house when he got ready and uh...that's one reason that uh...that uh...we drifted together. No, at that time most of the people in this area were coal miners and Everett was making about twice as much money as I was making. When I...when I...about the time I got married I think I was making about a hundred or a hundred and five dollars a month. And he was making maybe something over three hundred dollars a month at that time. And he was...he had one of the high paying jobs in the mines.

B: What did he do?

SP: He cut coal. Run a machine.

B: We uh...just uh...started talking about Mother Jones I think did your brother ever meet her do you know?

SP: Yes...yes I'm sure he met Mother Jones.

B: It doesn't sound like he talked to you much about his union activity. Did he talk to your husband maybe more about it?

SP: Well he...he didn't always live close to me it was one reason. Uh...I know uh...of course he lived...he lived close to us about the time of what they call the Massacre. But after that he lived you know he moved away and I didn't see him too much. I didn't see him as much of course.

B: Was your husband in town the day of the Massacre?

SP: No. We weren't married. We weren't married I don't know where he was.

B: Okay. Was your father or any of your other brothers in town that day?

SP: No.

B: Just Charlie?

SP: No we lived seven miles away and Charlie was the only one of us that was in town.

B: Okay. Lets see is there anything that we haven't talked about yet that you would like to bring up that you...crosses your mind?

SP: Your thinking about union...union affairs. I guess not uh... but thinking back to my childhood growing up at home uh...my father had...had a team of mules and sometimes he come to Matewan and bought groceries enough to last a long time. And uh...I remember in our kitchen as I was growing up we had a mean barrel and a flour barrel and that was kept see we were a big family. And I remember that my dad came to uh...rode the mule team to Matewan every so often he traded with E. B. Chambers who had a store about where the bank is now.

B: Can you remember uh...any of the stores any that were in any of the buildings downtown did you go to the downtown area very much?

SP: Yeah I was down there once in a while. My brother worked at one time by...that was before the strike I'm sure. He worked for Stone Mountain Coal Company.

B: Um-hum.

SP: And I remember one time I walked the seven miles from home to Matewan.

B: From Meador?

SP: One time.

B: Um-hum. Why just the one time?

SP: Well after that I suppose there was a...there was a car in the family or we had other transportation. At one time we owned a buggy. You know to...a horse drawn buggy, but uh...it...we...it was considered a good ways. Seven miles was a....was a pretty good walk at that time.

B: When you say your father would...would buy groceries were there any name brand things that...that your father and your mother would buy?

SP: Only...only name brand I can think of right off was Gold Metal Flour

B: Gold Metal Flour.

SP: And Arbuckle Coffee.

B: Okay. Did you...

SP: Arbuckle Coffee had uh...signature on the package and you could save those signatures you cut them out and you saved them and you could get all kinds of things. I think at one time we got a ring.

B: Who got the ring when you all won it?

SP: I don't remember who got it.

B: Did your mother buy things like soap or...

SP: Oh yes. You...you used to get uh...uh...my father was...in the old days if you bought three something....say a ten cent item you'd get three for a quarter and my father was always looking for bargains. Uh...and in...in those days...in the old days they were so many things you bought for a nickel. You bought a...some kinds of soap uh...Coke Cola, a box soda, a box of salt he bought uh... and I remember the first broom I bought after I went to housekeeping was thirty cents. It seems impossible the prices we paid then when you think what you...what you pay for things now.

B: Do you remember the prices of anything else that you would buy?

SP: Not in particular but of course they would of...they would have been everything would have been cheap when you think about salt for a nickel and soda for a nickel, so everything else would be in, as cheaply, in comparison.

B: How about um...clothing, did you all buy your clothing or...or did you make...

SP: My mother made our clothes uh...the girls' dresses she made our dresses until we were grown up she uh...she could look at a dress in the catalog and make one like it. Uh...I couldn't do that. By the way after I retired I took three different uh...sewing courses. And I...and I made my own pants suits and lots of dresses and so on after I retired. And after I retired I made dozens of quilts. And we always had a garden, this is the first year that I can remember when we didn't have a garden. When my husband worked at the mines he usually had the garden on the side. And then recently a nephew of mine and I gardened together. But this is the first year that we had no garden at all.

B: Since you were a school teacher did you do your own house keeping?

SP: Yes. Not very often did we have any help.

B: Okay. There's a couple of things have come up. Um...in our questioning people did you ever hear anything about who started the shooting during the massacre?

SP: No I didn't but I always had the understanding that...that possible most...mostly the cause of it was throwing people's furniture out in the rain and even pregnant women. I know one women that lived over in this camp that was pregnant and they threw everything out in the uh...threw everything out in the rain and left it out. And that was in this camp you can see it as you leave my house it's just across this stream.

B: Okay. Uh...did you ever hear about Sid supposedly shooting Mayor Testerman because of Jessie?

SP: Because of what?

B: Because of Jessie, of wanting to marry Jessie himself?

SP: No...no...no I...I don't think I heard that. But of course he did, didn't he? He did marry her?

B: Right.

SP: No...I...I don't think I've...if I heard it then I forgotten it. It's been a long time.

B: One of the...the older interviews that we have read uh...a man said that...that Jessie kind of had a reputation around town did you ever hear anything about Jessie?

SP: Nodding no.

B: This is tape two uh...Stella Presley's interview and your were just saying Mrs. Presley that you think at the time of the Matewan Massacre there was a weekly paper uh...was this in Meador or...

SP: That was called the Mingo Republican it was published in Williamson.

B: And did you read this newspaper yourself?

SP: Yes.

B: And it was a weekly paper?

SP: Yes.

B: What kind of...of news did they...well what did the paper have to say about the events surrounding the massacre? Was it a pro-union paper?

SP: I...I would have assumed it was. Because most the people I knew were pro-union. I would just assumed that it was I don't remember too much about that. And I don't remember when the uh... we got it...we started the Daily News the Williamson Daily News.

B: The name of the earlier newspaper just made me think of something. Uh...did you vote, were you a political person?

SP: I...I voted when...when women were allowed to vote. Yes I've ...I've...always voted. At uh...I taught...I've always had the feeling that if you're a good citizen you vote. Now I've had a neighbor a very fine person who...who...who used to think that a Christian shouldn't vote.

B: Um-hum.

SP: And but uh...I...I'm...I've been totally different from that. I think you should vote if you should vote for who you think will be the best no matter how they turn out. I think a good citizen should vote.

B: Were you a republican or a democrat?

SP: No I was a democrat.

B: You were democrat. What did it mean to be a democrat? I mean...

SP: Well I think to me it meant being with the...the common person ...the working....the working man. As I...as I grew up most of the democrats in our community were hardworking men and the few republicans was somebody that held an office. Seem...seems to me that where ever I've lived the majority have always been democrats. The few republicans that I knew was like Uncle Tom Mitchell whom I never did know to work until he got a job of uh... of being a guard. We called him a scab. He guarded for the Red Jacket Coal Company which really was against the union.

B: Um-hum. So...

SP: That's the most work I've...of course he probably...he probably farmed. And...and in the early days when I was real young a lot of the old timers paid their taxes by working on the road. Uh...one of my great uncles at one time was a foreman and of course that was before the roads were hard topped or anything...they just run through the old meadows and so on. And I can remember that ever so often some of the...some of the neighbors would take pick and shovel and work so many days on the road which paid their taxes. Of course that was...that was when I was real young, that soon...that was soon all over with.

B: So uh...what did...what did it mean to be re...a republican in your eyes? What did you think...

SP: Well the few republicans that I knew got political plums. When ...when I was a child and uncle of mine was a member of the Board of Education. And one time he ran for assessor on a republican ticket he didn't win it. But uh...through...all through the years uh...it seems to me the majority of the people I knew were demo-crats. And...and it seems to me that they were...they were more for the common people or for the working man.

B: Um-hum. Did your brother Charlie know about uh...your Uncle Tom being a scab?

SP: Oh yes...oh yes.

B: What did he have to say about that?

SP: Well he didn't like it. Actually he didn't like it we were... our family were always strong union people. And...and actually we didn't like...we didn't like Uncle Tom Mitchell then. And he was my great uncle by the way. We didn't like it but uh...see there was no work to it. He...he was just a guard.

B: So was he uh...a lazy individual? Is that your...

SP: I take it that prob...I take it that possibly he was. And.. in the...in the early day uh...that...the hogs and cows and your farm animals ran out...out wild. When I was growing up the cows... our cows and other peoples cows they just roam wild. I guess there was fewer settlers. And same way with hogs. And Uncle Tom naturally didn't keep a good fence. If he didn't work much...I remember at one time our hogs must have wandered down at his place. He was the next door neighbor which was, oh, half a mile away. And our hogs must have wandered down there. And one hog...and one time one of them come home with uh...somebody had hit it I guess with a butcher knife. It almost cut its ear off. So he didn't have good...he didn't have good fences and they had to shoo the animals off anyway they could I guess.

B: So since he was a scab did the family talk much about union?

SP: No we...we didn't uh...we didn't live real close. Was uh... something live half a mile from his house to our house. And we didn't uh...I guess we only saw each other maybe mostly on Sundays or something like that.

B: You said earlier that your husband's father was a Methodist minister, how...was he alive when you married?

SP: Oh yes...yes...he...he died in 1932.

B: Whose religion were you married in? Were you married...

SP: Well I was married by the minister at home who was...the only church we had there was...as I told you we met in the school house and the only church that we knew there was the Church of Christ. They called it the Christian Church.

B: Did you and your husband attend church?

SP: Yes we attend church there and then...and then we attended uh...Church of Christ that used to be here on the hill. My husband was superintendent of the Sunday school there a good while. And I taught uh...I taught some of the classes. Then later we...we went to Matewan Methodist Church and I taught the women's Bible class there for oh...more than twenty-five years.

B: How did your husband's father feel about him?

SP: It didn't seem to make any difference to him. He...he was called to preach at different places. He...he was in the state of Virginia for a while and he preached at other areas in this county. Before he died...after he retired they...they owned two or three houses in Matewan and rented those houses.

B: Did he ride a circuit? Was he a circuit riding minister?

SP: I guess you would have called that in his early days. I guess that was the days of the circuit rider.

B: If you don't mind me asking uh...what were some of your beliefs in your...your church in the Church of Christ? Did...did you believe in...in healing by faith or was there anything that stood out about your religious beliefs from say the other churches in the area?

SP: I don't...I don't remember anything in particular about...my father always said grace at the table.

B: Um-hum.

SP: And uh...I don't' remember anything in particular about the beliefs of the church at that time it was the only church and...and we felt like we should be there on Sunday that we should honor the Lord on his day. And I don't remember any special beliefs of the church and I don't see a lot of difference in the beliefs in the Methodist and that church other than they seem to stress baptism. They seem to stress that uh...the saving power is in the water. And which I don't go...go with. Uh...I don't care for that at all uh...we have this church here and they seem to believe so much... they believe so much more in water...baptism than the Baptists do. The Baptists don't stress water baptism here. But it seems this Church of Christ their...their very set on...they say baptism uh... they seem...they seem to say that baptism saves you. That water baptism saves you. And my father told somebody that uh...the time after I was good sized I guess that uh...if water baptism save you, you could just force people to be baptized. You could just take them out and baptize them if that saved ya.

B: So what did um...what did save somebody? What...what saved their soul?

SP: Your belief and your faith in Jesus Christ was...that was... he died for our sins and that's the thing that saved us. He's already paid the price for our sins.

B: Was regular church attendance also a requirement?

SP: Yes most everybody went. Most everybody went when I was a child. And especially when there was a funeral. Everybody turned out.

B: Some of the things I'd like to ask you about just general history questions, do you remember the flu epidemic that followed World War I?

SP: Gosh don....don't I remember the flu epidemic!. My...my husband that I later married gave it to us.

B: Oh no!.

SP: Yeah. At that...at that time he was working at Burwyn, West Virginia. And...and he came to see me in the fall.

B: Um-hum.

SP: And before he'd hardly got back home well we come down with the flu all of us. We all come down with the flu. He wrote and told me he had the flu after he went back that he had the flu. The first I knew of the flu at that time was in 1918. And we got the uh...Cincinnati paper we got the Cincinnati Post. I think my father was walking over the mountain working at Thacker at that time. And he brought a Cincinnati Post home and I remember reading where dogs in Cincinnati had the flu.

B: Oh my goodness.

SP: Had the Spanish influenza. Well we all got the flu and we must have been pretty bad with it. One of my brothers had gone out and tried to dig potatoes in the fall and uh...he got real sick and I think somebody in the family accused him of just playing off being sick. And uh...he told us one day said...said bring me in the room with you all says I don't want to die down here by myself. And he was getting kindly scared of himself. Of course I had it and then uh...a lot of us had what we uh... called a back set. We uh...we had another session of it maybe when we got out of the house too early. The thing I remember about the flu nothing tasted good. It was in the fall and uh...the apples were good and ripe on the trees and I always loved the fall apples. But they didn't taste right. And what ever you ate didn't taste right that's one thing I remember about it. And uh...my father was still working while all the rest of us had the flu and he was a real strong person seemed to never be sick. Nothing ever seemed to bother him. He come home and he almost died. The first thing that happened here our doctor died. There was a doctor here at Matewan named Goings. G.O.I.N.G.S. And he died, one of the first people to die with it. So we couldn't get a doctor and uh...then my father after we all had to flu he had...he come home from work and he almost died. He had a terrible...terrible time with the flu. And then my brother was staying at my aunt's house at Red Jacket and uh... after papa got sick then...Ben come home and uh...of course he had the flu later. But he come home from Aunt Mary's and tried to take care of us. One thing I remember was he was making biscuits he... he baked biscuits I think were about three inches high. But we were all sick we couldn't...we couldn't eat them, but I'll always remember his biscuits. So he had the flu then after all the rest of us. But uh...of course none of us died but...but that was a terrible time here uh...there at Red Jacket uh...about every other house had somebody dead in it. Naturally with...naturally when you had...we had no doctor naturally. And then the flu was new the doctors wouldn't have know how...how to treated it any how.

B: Um-hum. So did they...did anyone try to tell people how to treat it or did you just...

SP: I don't remember anything special that we...that we took for it.

B: Um-hum.

SP: I don't uh...I know they give certain kinds of tea for measles and things like that but the flu was so new to us we didn't know what to do for it. And I guess we were fortunate that nobody in our family died.

B: Um-hum. About um...World War I did any of your brothers or anybody you knew fight...

SP: My brother...my brother Charlie was drafted.

B: Um-hum. Did he fight?

SP: Yes he was wounded in Argonne Forrest.

B: What did...

SP: He had scars on his face from shrapnel.

B: Did he talk about his experiences during the war?

SP: Yes he talked about them some. And he...he was uh...he was left with the army of occupation after the war was over he stayed over there several months after the war was over. And he married uh...a Luxembourg girl.

B: Um-hum. Did she come back to the states with hum?

SP: Yes they come back in nineteen....they got back here in nineteen...lets see uh...he left in 1917 and...and he got back I believe in 1919. My...my younger sister was born while he was over seas.

B: How old was your mother when...when she was born?

SP: She must have been in the late forties. She must have been. Uh...Charles's uh...Charles's wife the Luxembourg girl that he married uh...didn't speak ver...but very little English. And of course we didn't speak any...she spoke several languages you know Luxembourg was such a small country she spoke French and Luxembourg, German she...she...she knew several languages.

B: Um-hum.

SP: And uh...the second day after she was here she was in the kitchen helping cook.

B: Um-hum.

SP: Uh...she just died last summer while I was in the hospital but she was a real little blessing to our family. She felt more like a real sister than she did uh...you know than a sister-in-law. And I...it hurt me so this summer when I was in the hospi-tal and she died and was buried and I couldn't...I couldn't be here.

B: So she ended up learning English I...

SP: Oh yes...oh yes. Was...we...we had fun you know we...we'd argued some time made my brothers so mad she would argue about us for instance she would uh...instead of saying Geography she would say Geographie. (French accented pronunciation)

B: Uh-huh.

SP: And we were so dumb that we laughed at her. And it made Charles so mad. But she surly was a blessing to our family. They lived pretty here close to me.

B: Did she teach him any languages or...

SP: Well he learned a smattering you know naturally to marry her he had to learn the smattering. He...he uh...learned some French naturally being over seas as long as he was. He learned some French and Luxembourg. Her...her brother was a photographer. And he met her going to the...have...having to his picture made and going there. They had uh...they lost a little girl and she was about four years old uh...Charlie, finally, to our sorrow he finally divorced her and married again which hurt us we...we...it hurt us really badly. But she raised up a real nice family. Charlie supported them but...well I give her credit for raising up a nice family. Pauline their daughter is the Vice-President of the Bank. She's been in the bank longer than anybody in...in the bank. And they have a daughter whose a teacher. And the youngest son is uh...attorney in Martinsburg, West Virginia and of course Pauline was sent to...to uh...school and the twins didn't want to go to school and they got married so...but I give them credit for raising a real fine family.

B: Um-hum. Did...did you ever know why they divorced?

SP: Well he went to Detroit to organize CIO. And she stayed at a woman's home. A woman who owned some uh...some buildings you know and he stayed in her building and then some how something started there I think. And during the union trouble uh...some people began who had never drunk before. And uh...I don't know... Charlie's widow is still living in Florida.

B: Um-hum.

SP: He died in '81. I lost uh...three...three brothers real close together. Uh...I was at Myrtle Beach. My sister and I and Charlie the oldest one died in February 1980. Then '81 I lost my husband in August and then I lost my last brother who was a minister in the Church of Christ...I lost the last brother. He's buried Christmas Eve that same year that I lost my husband.

B: How about the Depression, what do you remember...what stands out in your mind about the Depression?

SP: One thing I remember that brother-in-law of mine my...my sister's husband worked for the Board of Education for thirty-one dollars a month.

B: What did he do?

SP: I think...I think they...they drove a truck..truck maybe delivering supplies to school or something like that. See there was uh...there wasn't much work.

B: Um-hum.

SP: And instead of giving him and a neighbor of mine here...... instead of giving one of them the job they split the job and uh...as well as I remember they each went and made about thirty-one dollars a month. And was glad to get it. And then along about the same time when a teacher's salary...when you got your salary... cashed your check you had to discount it. I don't know who got that discount whether the sheriff got it or what but at one time you didn't get the face value of your...if you were making ninety dollars a month you probably when you got it cashed you only had eight-five or something like that.

B: And where did...

SP: I don't know who got that uh...but I think that the claim was that the county didn't have the money.

B: Um-hum. So it was...when you'd cash it at the bank and they would instead of giving you ninety dollars they would just give you eighty-five or...who did the discount...I mean did you know whose hands the discount went into?

SP: I don't remember that. I...I wouldn't think the bank would take it. I don't remember that. I remember someone cleaned uh... buildings at the school just before school begun and had a little ten dollar check for...for cleaning the buildings and uh...I know I cashed a check for somebody and then when...when I got my money back I only got five dollars. I guess the bank...I guess that... yes I guess that's the way....I guess the bank must have done it. That didn't last very long. That may have been only two or three years. But that was when we had a republican sheriff and nat... naturally I remember that it was a republican.

B: What do you remember...I...we've heard some stories about political corruption here in the county do you have...

SP: No that's..that's...

B: any personal reminiscences about...

SP: That's just recent your thinking about isn't it?

B: Well...

SP: Are you thinking about the recent papers just lately?

B: Some of that and then some I've...I've heard the name Noah Floyd involved in Mingo County politics...

SP: Yes...yes I don't know too much about that. Noah Floyd was a supervisor when I was...when I was principal at Red Jacket school. And I thought very well of him but naturally politics has...there have been scoundrels...

B: Um-hum...

SP: every so often lets say it that way.

B: Okay.

SP: Just every so often. And then some of the latest (scoundrelsscandals) what you've just read recently in the papers. The papers are full of that. It seems...it's really...you know they used to call this Bloody Mingo.

B: Um-hum. Do you know why?

SP: I guess because of the...this what they call Massacre. It was not called Massacre until about the time that movie come out called Matewan. It was never called Massacre.

B: What did they call it?

SP: It was just call it the Matewan Shooting or something. It was never called Massacre. I never heard that word until...until this Matewan movie come out. B: Um...in one of our other interviews a man mentioned another... there was another shoot out in Matewan. I think in 1912 or 1913 where I think two sheriffs shot each other. Did you remember anything about any other shoot outs?

SP: Yes...yes I remember two people shooting each other. But I don't remember the details.

B: Um-hum.

SP: I've heard...I've heard the story of two people shooting each other. I...seems to me maybe both of them were killed. And I don't rem...I don't remember that uh...too well.

B: Okay. Do you remember anything about what time that would have happened I mean what year?

SP: No...no...no I just remember hearing about it.

B: Um-hum. Okay. Some of the local events I suppose I should ask about are the floods. Do you have any particular memories of...of the floods?

SP: Well the seventy-seven flood I guess was the worst flood. I have lots of pictures of the seventy-seven flood of Matewan with uh...the whole street being filled with houses that turned every which way.

B: Uh-huh.

SP: But that...that was the worse flood.

B: Did this area here where you live....

SP: No...

B: flood?

SP: No.

B: It didn't?

SP: No uh...one of the last...on of the last floods that crossed this bridge here below my house you could look out there at the stream and see that the water was backed up in that stream. Of course it didn't get up to the houses are up in...but it effected us we were without water for a month and uh...we were without phones for a while. I remember that we flushed the toilet with water out of the fish pond. We finally drilled our own well after going without water for a whole month. One of the neighbors had a uh...well you know an open well and we got our drinking water from that. I had a pool out in the yard about fifteen foot long and lots of fish in it so we...we had that to flush the commode with. Usually there's a little stream here and I remember that the Delbarton Fire Truck come over here when we were trying to clean up Matewan and they got water out of this little stream in front of my house and took it down to wash...to help wash out the streets in Matewan. The mud in Matewan was all so deep and so much of it was coal refuse from Red Jacket and up that way until uh...that in people's yard nothing could grow in it that was...was rather terrible times after the flood. One family I remember...this woman was in our Sunday school class and they lived some where on this side of the underpass about where uh...uh...the uh...where that drive in is Collins Drive In about there. They lived in a brick house and they went up in the attic you know to get out of the flood. And the water kept getting higher and it was almost dark and she said they screamed and screamed and thought they were...that the water was gonna come up in the attic and...and that they would never...they would never get out of it. Uh...but uh...somebody finally come with a boat and rescued them. They were in the attic and trapped the water was practically up to the attic. So they had a terrible time. Another thing I remember about one of the floods I had Appendicitis...we were married the twenty-fifth of October. And I was operated on for Appendicitis the nineteenth day of December and uh...my husband come home to borrow money to pay...to pay the last of the bill. And uh...his mother...the flood had got up in her bottom dresser drawer. The lived about across from where the old high school building there is across...across the creek there from the Chevrolet garage. And uh...he said that the water had got up in his bottom dresser drawer at his mother's. Well just to show you how it changed from uh...lets see that year we were married twenty-six and uh...then when we...another one of the floods come along why I guess it was seventy-seven you'd barely see the tip of the top of their house. In the flood water. And then probably it had gone down because I didn't use to go down to look around until it was started to go down.

B: So there was a flood in 1926?

SP: Yes...yes but...but it wasn't a bad flood. That...that...how come me to remember it I was in the hospital in Huntington. I got to ride the baggage coach which was most people don't get to. Uh... I rode the baggage coach, my mother...see I just married... been married a short time my mother went with me and Everett went with me. And I remember I had terrible pains and I to wanted water and he kept going getting me water. And every time I drank water my pains were worse. I finally told him ask the doctor if I could have some water...and he said the doctor said don't you give her a drop of water.

B: Oh no...so you got to ride the baggage coach because you were sick?

SP: Well I was going to Huntington for Appendicitis operation. I had...I had uh...uh...Peritonitis too. Inflammation of the bowels. I...I rode out from home, a cousin of mine had a...we had a Ford Roadster when we were married but he had a two seated car and I rode on a feather bed in a cousin's car. Rode out to the station and then I got to ride the baggage coach.

B: What was the Ford Roadster like?

SP: Oh it was uh...it...it had uh...oh it was a different kind of a top that what you see cars now. You could fold it down.

B: Oh it was a convertible....

SP: Yes...

B: It was like a cloth top

SP: Yes...it was uh...it must have been a '26 model. He had a what they call a touring car and I...he had taught me to drive in that touring car. And then when we were married we had the Ford Roadster. and on our honeymoon we went...(Same topic picks up on other side)

SP: Well I...I went to state teachers convention.

B: Um-hum.

SP: and we went to uh...Clarksburg and went...went through Glenville they were building the roads. The county and the...the county and the town both were building roads.

B: Um-hum.

SP: And uh...the mud in the road there must have been eight inches deep...

B: Oh...

SP: at least.

B: Um...

SP: And I can remember Everett jumped out beside of the car he didn't have to wade the mud he jumped out some how. And I remember sitting there eating a Babe Ruth while he went to get somebody to pull us out. I don't remember who pulled us out or whether it was...I guess it was another car or truck I don't remember but I do remember sitting there eating a Babe Ruth while he was gone to...

B: You say he taught you how to drive. Did you all have driving licenses?

SP: Yes I never did have to pass the test. I don't know whether I could or not.

B: Uh-huh.

SP: I've been driving since about nineteen twenty. I think he had a '23 touring car. And he...that may have been when I learned to drive, I'm not sure when I learned to drive but it was before I got married. And uh...I never did...I didn't have...all you did was pay for your...your...your license. You didn't pass a test then. I remember going with some woman down at Marshall when...I went with her when she went to take the test and he ask questions that I...I couldn't of answered them. I started to say I don't know that and I thought well you better keep your mouth shut. You got your license you'd better keep it.

B: How long did you keep a license?

SP: Still got it. I still...I have my car at Myrtle Beach when I go to Myrtle Beach. I don't go by myself any more. My friend and I...a friend from Bluefield we used to drive in sight of each other. And some of my family thought that I shouldn't go by myself. And so they've been going with me. A nephew flies down sometimes and drives back with me. I probably would still be going by myself if they hadn't...they hadn't decided that I shouldn't go by myself.

B: You said before when some of the union trouble started that people some people started drinking that had never been drinking before. Did men drink or did women...or did women also drink around here?

SP: Well I was...I grew up out in the country and...if you...any women ever drank I never...I never heard about it. I never heard about it if any women ever drank? But uh...I think some of the men who had never drank before maybe they went to union meetings and so on. Maybe uh...from boredom or something. Not having...not working. It did things to people. I know...I know some people that I knew had never taken a drink in their life some of them...some of them begun to drink some during the strike. It was...naturally it was a strain on everybody. Naturally they didn't have as much food as they were used to and that sort of thing.

B: When uh...so when...when couples were dating or after they were married what...what kind of social activities did...did young people engage in?

SP: Oh you went to a show once in a while.

B: Was this the movie show?

SP: Um-hum.

B: Do you remember ever thinking how much that cost I mean? Ok.

SP: It cost very little in the old days. Nothing like going to a movie now. They cost very little maybe thirty-five cents.

B: Did you go to the theater in Matewan?

SP: Yes and we had uh...we had a theater at Red Jacket with uh...with no top.

B: Um-hum. Was that a drive in or?

SP: No it wasn't a drive in. And then later they had a theater in a building that did have a top. But I guess it was a short time that they had a theater with no...with no roof. I guess it was a very short time. Then later when I was teaching school there they had...they had...they showed movies in a building. A nice building. They used to have bank...bank night uh...here at Matewan. Did anybody tell you that?

B: No.

SP: Uh...sometimes they gave away you know certain money on bank night. Everybody got a chance on it that went. I know one man had lived on uh...up on the hillside in a two or three roomed house and bank night I believe he won four hundred dollars.

B: Oh my goodness.

SP: And he prospered from then and finally owned the Chevrolet garage in Matewan.

B: Who was that?

SP: Well I don't know whether I should tell you this I guess it was Pearlie Epling.

B: Pearlie..

SP: Pearlie Epling.

B: Okay.

SP: I guess that's common knowledge that he got his start from bank night.

SP: It was no secret.

B: Was...was that kind of like uh...lottery or...

SP: Something like a lottery. Frank Allara who is...you've heard of him I'm sure...he's sick now. Frank Allara owned uh...theater and uh...and uh...different people won certain amounts of money but Pearlie is the one I remember and...and remember how he prospered after that owned...owned the garage. I never did go to bank night.

B: Why was that?

SP: I just wasn't interested.

B: So that was at the movie theater?

SP: Um-hum.

B: Did you buy a ticket and then...

SP: The...the ticket was a chance on...on uh...some times it was four hund...might of been eight hundred that...some times it was uh...I think if nobody won it some night then...well somebody would have won every night wouldn't they if they'd had tickets there yeah they would have. But any how seems to me like it might have been ...seems to me Pearlie won four hundred. It might have been more. But seems to me he won four hundred. I believe that was Tuesday nights.

B: So what would you say a young married like your husband and yourself what would you all do when you weren't working or working in a garden? What was your social activity?

SP: Not uh...not...not much of any kind of social activities. We...we visited friends sometimes we went to church. We visited friends but there wasn't a lot of social activities. At least I don't remember a lot of activity.

B: When you would visit would you play cards or talk or...

SP: I never did learn to play cards. I...yes we played cards at home. Now my mother we played Flinch and Rook, but regular playing cards she wouldn't allow them in the house. That's funny. She... she wouldn't allow regular playing cards in the house. But we... she played Rook, we played Touring we played Flinch but...but regular playing cards I don't know what is the difference. We didn't play for money. Naturally we didn't play for the money. But uh... she wouldn't allow them in the house.

B: What was...what was Flinch and then what was Touring?

SP: Well it was just...Touring was a num...number of different cards with different colors. And Flinch was uh...was a black and white card...white care with black numbers uh...but I don't remember how we played it. But uh...but touring had so many different colors that I remember that I don't uh...I don't remember details about the game but we played it a lot at home. My mother...my mother loved to play it.

B: How about music?

SP: We had uh...we had a organ and my...my brother uh...my brother played beautifully. My brother that become a minister he played... .he had a natural talent and never had any lessons. And...and my mother played the organ beautifully. Uh...and I took organ lessons when I was a child I remember the...the school teacher started giving me lessons. And some how it didn't last. I don't think that I took to music very well. That's one of the poorest grades I made in college.

B: Was music?

SP: Poorest...one of the poorest grades. My friend...my friend from Virginia tried to teach me music. And we even went out to the grave yard there at Concord College and she tried to teach me music and uh...I that was the one thing that I never did get anywhere in music. But when we come to one of the test I made a better grade than she did.

B: Oh no. Where did the organ come from that your family had? Do you...

SP: We ordered it. It was an Alder. We order it from Louis... Louisville Kentucky. And I'm sorry its gone from the family uh... my brother took it and had it a while after mommy died and...and then another brother had it and I think finally a nephew ended with it in a house that leaked. So it's gone forever. But my brother played beautifully. And thinking about the Presley name, I found out last summer that possible my husband was some thing like a third cousin to Elvis.

B: Oh my goodness.

SP: Yes I found that out last summer. Uh...some of our family called me from Coeburn, Virginia and ask us to come to a reunion. That reunion had people from all over. From Florida, Wyoming, and here and there. And that day I learned that uh...Everett's grandfather that one of his brothers settled in Texas one settled in Tennessee, and one in Virginia, and uh...the old timer said that uh...they finally...and then...then a nephew of mine his wife did some research she even went to Washington, D.C. and did some research there and she found out that possible that uh...Everett my husband was possible a third cousin to Elvis. Uh...Everett didn't ...wasn't any good at music at all but uh...two of his brothers could make a fiddle talk...they were great. Never had a lesson in their life. And we have a nephew in California one of the brothers sons never had a music lesson in his life and he's great on the piano. He's really great. Uh...Everett's older brother when I was a child played me to sleep at night with a fiddle.

B: Oh...

SP: Violin. I remember trying to sit up as long as he played and I couldn't do it...and I had to...I went to sleep. But it seems like they really related. I know one time Everett and I were coming back from the West from California I guess and we'd left the motel and I heard Everett say well uh...we might be some relation, I said are you claiming kin to Elvis? He says well I'm getting tired of people asking me. When we...when we went over Cuba the taxi driver that met us at the airport wanted to know if we were related to Elvis.

B: Oh my goodness. Elvis must have been pretty famous even been back then.

SP: But the Presley family really were talented in music. They really...the really...well Wallace is really great in music the nephew. And the two brothers they never had a music lesson in their life. I don't...I don't imagine Elvis ever had a music lesson. I never was crazy about Elvis like a lot of people.

B: What kind of music did...did you and your husband or...or your friends listen to? What kind of music was popular around here?

SP: Well we...before we had...before we had TV of course we had a radio we had a radio and uh...victrola thing sort of combined. And we liked that. I remember some of his family would come on Saturday night and listen to the radio and...or the victrola we had lots of records.

B: What kind of records do you...do you remember any of the people or any of the songs?

SP: Oh country mostly. I...and religious records.

B: Um-hum. Do you remember when TV came to this area? I mean television?

SP: Yes. I don't remember when but uh...we had a black and white that lasted forever. And then from that of course we've had the color ever since. But I don't remember when it come.

B: What...what did you think of...of television when you first watched something on it?

SP: Well it was...it was most interesting you know it was...opened up a new world...didn't it? It really opened up a new world uh... television. And we used to have some of the family would come... some of his family would come to our house on Saturday night and people would sit up...I especially when it come out I especial-ly loved the Christmas music. That meant more to me than most.

B: Yeah. Okay, lets see. When you were young did women wear say make-up or jewelry like somebody my age does today? Did...were girls allowed to wear make-up?

SP: They didn't wear much not like they do today. I can't remember ear rings as I was growing up. I don't like ear rings now. I...I never wear ear rings. I have to wear hearing aid that's all the ear stuff I...no I don't remember my mother must have thought I was a plain little thing. I...I remember she took one...we didn't have rouge she took red paper and tried to paint my checks. And I didn't like it. She must have thought I was a plain little thing. I...I didn't like it at all.

B: Um...I notice your hair is short now did you have short hair when you were young? S

P: I never did have a lot of hair. There are a lot of bald men in our family. I did...I never did have a lot of hair. When I first cut my hair I was going to school at Delbarton, going to the high school building and uh...at that time women were...they talked about you if you had your hair cut...just uh...I think they meant that ornery people had their hair cut. But any how I never had long hair...my hair never was long. It uh...it probably...probably never was...well it just never was long. But I had it cut and uh...somebody said "Oh Stella did you have your pretty long hair cut?" And I said why I never did have pretty long hair. But I've had it cut...I've...cut every since then.

B: Um-hum.

SP: And I can't stand a permanent. My sister says to me once in a while said oh your hair used to look so pretty when you had a permanent, but when I get a permanent wave seems like it's just all fuzzy from one to the other. It just sticks straight up. So I've haven't had a permanent 'til I guess...I bet I haven't had a permanent in maybe ten years. Uh...seem like my hair just doesn't a permanent like...like some people.

B: When you say people's thought that uh...people that cut their hair were ornery was...was that just mean or...or did they think the girls were fast?

SP: I think they...think maybe fast people had their hair cut. But uh...but other people was beginning to get their cut, or I wouldn't of had the nerve to have mine cut if other people hadn't begin to doing that. But uh...and now I've never had...I...I've kept it cut...kept it cut ever since. I think that was in the twenties. I graduated from high school the same year I got married. And I had been teaching...I'd been teaching several years see I taught...took teachers' ex-amination and been teaching several years when when...I graduated from high school.

B: What year...just for the record...what year did you graduate from Concord?

SP: 1949.

B: Okay. What did your...your parents and then perhaps your husband say about your having short hair? What did they think?

SP: I wasn't married...I wasn't married...and I...and I think I was dating somebody else. I don't think I was dating Everett at that time. We dated other people between times. I don't think I was dating him. I don't remember the family saying anything. They didn't uh...they didn't seem to pay any attention. I think I was staying away from home when I had my hair cut. But I don't remember my mother saying anything about it.

B: Where were you stay...did you...

SP: I stayed at Delbarton.

B: Um-hum. Was that in a boarding house?

SP: Um-hum.

B: Okay. You said you...you dated other people off and on uh... other than your husband how...when a couple would start dating how...what was the agreement like if they dated somebody else?

SP: We didn't any agreement. Everett and I we just...we just got together when we were kids. Uh...just...just real young. And uh...there wasn't any agree-ment...suddenly he was dating somebody else and I was dating somebody else I don't know...I dated a young man who was killed in the mines, between times. He was...

B: What happened to...

SP: He was a mine superintendent in Wayne County.

B: Do you remember his name?

SP: Benny Marcum.

B: How did he die?

SP: Slate fall.

B: Slate fall.

SP: You know the car...three of his buddies come to tell me and when I saw the car...I was at my mother's house, of course, and when I saw the car I knew...I knew...I knew something had happened. I...I went back in the house I...rather than to go out and meet them I went back, I knew something had happened. So uh...

B: How old was he? Do you remember?

SP: Twenty-one.

B: Do you uh...did you know was there any compensation to his family or anything like that?

SP: I don't remember...I don't remember. They...they were in Wayne County and my brother and I went to the funeral I...I don't know...I don't know what...probably was. I don't know that early that was in 1924. I don't know...I don't know whether West Virginia had compensation at that time or not.

B: How had you met him?

SP: I had...I was teaching school at Sprigg and he come up to visit his uncle. I was light housekeeping with another teacher and she uh...she dated Benny's uncle. And uh..I met Benny through his uncle. They were married the next September after we met. And uh...Benny talked to me about double wedding but I was beginning to teach school and I...I thought I had a career coming up and...so we didn't have a double wedding.

B: When you say light housekeeping was that when two women teachers were would...would share...

SP: We had uh...we had a room...a room in a private family in used their bathroom. We had a room to...a bedroom and a kitchen used their kitchen and we lived at with a family...with a good friend of mine.

B: Is there anything else that...that comes to mind, we've been talking for quite a while.

SP: I think I've told you too much already.

B: I don't think so but uh...is there anybody that...that you can think of still in this area that might be good to interview? That might talk to us?

SP: Uh...my neighbor who lives straight across from me is...is a...same age as I am...I'm...I'm a few months older than he is and he might remember about the...he might remember about the uh... Matewan Massacre. I don't know what he knows about it. But he might but he remembered I know he remembers when my younger brother was killed in the mines. He...he seems to be right there. So uh...he might...he might be uh...he might remember a lot of things I don't know.

B: What was his name?

SP: Sailor...Sailor Williamson.

B: Okay. Could we talk a little bit about your brothers death. You just said your younger brother died in the mines. What happened to him?

SP: He was a younger brother. Are you turned on?

B: Yes ma'am.

SP: He was uh...younger brother. He had graduated from high school two years before. I believe he was twenty. And uh...he... he had uh...I think he loaded coal and he had cleaned up his place and didn't have anything special to do right then...

B: So he went...went to uh...with a friend of his a buddy and went in there I think maybe to help him...maybe he loaded the coal too...maybe he went in there to help him clean up the place or something. But in that day the mines weren't safe and there was exposed electrical wire. I don't know whether he sat down on it or backed into it. He was my youngest brother and uh...he gave me his money to put in the bank and when he was killed I still had some money that I still hadn't put in the bank for him. He was real good to us being the youngest in the family. And it first... first tragedy in the family, but it was terrible. I...I had his picture enlarged but to this day I've never been able to put it out. But he...he got into an electric wire some how which wasn't safe it...the mines shouldn't have been like that. That was the first tragedy I can remember. Our...our sister died before I was born see I didn't know anything about that.

B: Um-hum.

SP: But uh...that was the first thing that happened to our family and it hit us...it hit us terribly hard.

B: What year was that?

SP: It was 1934. We should...we should of had him agricultural college or something we didn't uh...we didn't realize of course I was younger, we should have never let him gone in the mines. You can look back and see what you should have done.

B: Was uh...did the coal company do anything for your family because of the accident?

SP: Not that...not that I remember.

B: How about the union? Did he belong to the union?

SP: Yes...yes I'm sure that he belonged to the union but that uh ...I don't think they did anything in those days.

B: Had he married yet? Was he married.

SP: No...he was probably would have got married he was dating a nice girl. But uh...

B: Well I hate to leave off on such a sad note but if you don't have anything else to talk about I'll call in a few weeks and maybe we can...we can talk some more. You said off tape you...you hadn't lead a very colorful life. But I think we wouldn't have gotten two...almost two hours worth other wise so...

SP: Well I...I still don't think that it's been colorful at all.

B: Well I think it's...it's interesting and I think it...it'll be..

SP: I've...I've had uh...I've had a wonderful life I...I enjoyed the years that I went to college. And I have special friends at Myrtle Beach that I treasure. There most everybody is retired you have time for each other. I have friends from Canada uh...my friend from Canada brought those flowers somebody said to her "How will Stella get those home. She said I'm sure that if I can bring them all the way from she can take them to West Virginia." I have wonderful friends there and I've...I've had uh...I've had a lovely life. We've had our share of tragedies of course but after all it's been a...it's been a lovely life.

B: Is there anything that...that you would like to say about living in this area before I cut the tape off?

SP: Oh, is the tape still on?

B: Um-hum.

SP: Gosh! Well I like this area it's home. And uh...uh...I love West Virginia of course we used to sing the song uh..."West Virginia Hills" in school. And then the other West Virginia songs and uh...I especially like that one "Take Me Home". I especially like that.

B: The "Country Road" song?

SP: I didn't think...yes...I don't think I'd want to live any where else though we...though we don't have the doctors and the hospitals you know as they do in the city. For instance my father's brother that lived in Charlotte we just felt like they had all the advantages in the world and possibly uh...some of our family passed away, if they'd lived in the big cities they wouldn't...wouldn't have. But I still love it here. And I wouldn't choose to live anywhere else. And what little traveling I've done in the state I don't think any of them are as prettier as in West Virginia.

B: I agree.

SP: Um-hum...

B: Ok.

Matewan Oral History Project Collection