Source: WV History Film Project
BURGER INTERVIEW, TAKE 1, CAMERA 270, SOUND 110
Q: Bettijane, let's go back now 65 years ago to
1928, your Mother was sent from Ohio to a little
community on Hollow Run of Blue Creek, Scotts
Run, that's outside of Morgantown. Take us back to
the time and tell us what it was, what kind of a world
she walked into in 1921. What did she see
there?
JJHB 0057
BB: The world she walked into was a far cry from
Wooster College, but is was a place of dirt and slag
and muddy roads and yellow creeks and she thought
she would start with the children. So, she walked up
the hill, after she had taken the bus out of
Morgantown, to the Stump Town schoolhouse and
she introduced herself and the teachers knew that she
was coming. And she took the children outside and
taught them games that they had never been taught
before. And she invited them to come to Sunday
School. And they came and they kept coming, maybe
because she gave them new opportunities. She made
them believe in themselves. She gave them happy
times.
BURGER INTERVIEW, TAPE 2, CAMERA 270, SOUND 110.
Q: Betty J., when your Mom came out to Scotts
Run, was she shocked by what she saw?
JJHB 0181
BB: My Mom was really shocked. She had never
seen to much poverty. The kids were playing by the
railroad tracks, around coal cars. They had no books.
Nobody had finished high school. Kids were going in
the mines to work, the boys. The girls were getting
married or having large families. There was no
hope.
Q: What did she come to do? Not literally, but
figuratively. What did she think she had come there
to do and how did it change?
JJHB 0248
BB: She was asked to come and start a Sunday
School program, which she did, but, children began to
come to her and tell her about conditions in their
homes -- like, "my brother is sick," "we don't have
any clothes," "we don't have any heat," "we don't have
any money," "we don't have any food," and so she
would go up to the houses and begin seeing that there
was a community beyond the Sunday School that she
had to do something about.
Q: What was it in that community that she had to
do something about? What was it she had to do
something about?
JJHB 0307
BB: There were coal miners, and as the Union
movement was beginning, there were strikes and,
instead of the Unions, or instead of the coal
companies negotiating with the people to start the
Unions, they would fire people. And then, they would
bring in strike-breakers from other countries, from 29
other countries, to Scotts Run. So, the people who
were out of work, had nothing. There was no welfare.
There were no food stamps. There was nothing, so,
when you have nothing, you have needs and then you
have poverty.
Q: Tell me about some of the specific things, that
over the years, she came to see that were going on.
Children would lead her home and take her into their
houses, and over time, she began to see more and
more of what life was really like inside the home in
the Six Streams??? Tell me about that.
BB: Well, Mom told me about the typical things that
we've heard about poverty. The newspapers on the
walls and --
Q: Stop, for a second. Yea, we have to retake. Do you hear when that big truck goes by? You probably can.
Q: OK. Let's start again. Tell Mom. What did
your Mom?
BB: Give me. Feed me the question.
Q: As children began to take your Mom into
their homes, what did your Mom see?
JJHB 0447
BB: Mom saw a lot of poverty and newspapers on the
walls. No clothes for kids. No shoes. Draft.
Sickness. Bedbugs. Lice. Women would come to
the door with bruises on their faces. She would wash
lice out of people's hair, children's hair, after she got
to know them better. Hopelessness. There was no
food. No money. I mean, if you lost your job, you
had nothing. Maybe, it you were lucky, you got
$8.00 from the county. When the welfare system
came in, that wasn't too much, either. But, the money
never went far enough and the people who worked for
the mines, of course, as that old song goes "Owe their
soul to the company store," there was nothing left
over. So, she saw every kind of problem. She talked
to one woman who had a lot of children and when she
became pregnant, again, the woman said "I cannot
have another child." So, she used a knitting needle to
try to induce an abortion or she would use lye and, of
course, Mom would go up there and try to mop up
after them.
Q: She, also, became very acquainted with a
family of eleven that -- what's the name of the family?
You mentioned that one family member still survives
from that family. What did she come to see in that
family?
JJHB 0584
BB: There was a large family named the Voithofers,
and, the Mother died young and left a large family of
sons and daughters, afterwards, and, the father was a
coal miner. I don't, now, whether he was laid off or
not. But, Mom took one of the daughters, named
Ruth, under her wing and encouraged her to finish
high school and this was unheard of at the time. High
school was for somebody else. You didn't finish high
school at Scotts Run. You went into the mines or you
got married or, maybe went into the Army. I don't
know, but she Mom got started a club called the "U
High School Club" to try to put prestige into
education because there was nothing of prestige in
education, that was for somebody else. And so, Ruth
was among one of the first group of people to
graduate from high school and, then she worked
really hard with her to get her into Wooster College
which was my Mom's alma mater.
JJHB 0670
And, she did that and dropped out almost, a couple of
times. But, when she did graduate from college, the
first one from Scotts Run, the college, at
commencement ceremonies, gave her an award for
extraordinary courage and Ruth went on to work in
the labor union movement and her daughter went to
Stanford University and went on to work in the labor
movement, herself.
Q: You might want to retake. That's OK. I
heard it. Come on, let's go Chip. Your mother came
to see an even darker side, though, of the poverty.
She came to see that the poverty was producing a lot
of pressure within the families of Scotts Run and she
came to see something that didn't even have a name,
at that time -- battered women and child abuse. Tell
me about it.
JJHB 0758
BB: When my Mom and I talked about all this, years
later, and with my work in the women's movement, I
became really involved in the issue of domestic
violence and I asked her one time if she ever say
domestic violence.
Q: Could you speak about it in terms of directly
about her experience, rather that an experience you
and she shared? What did your Mom "see?"
JJHB 0791
BB: When the coal companies would give out their
checks at the end of the week, the coal miners would
go to the store and buy a lot of liquor and, I guess,
they would take that out on their families because,
sometimes, Mom would come to the door and a
women would come to the door with her face all full
of bruises, but you didn't call it that, you didn't call it
domestic violence, then. It was just, "Well, those
miners just had a big day," and maybe the miners
were acting out their sense of hopelessness because
they were brought over here under, maybe false
pretenses, that this was really going to be a really
great opportunity for them and they moved into Scotts
Run in these shacks where the chickens were running
all over the place, and outdoor privies and they
worked very hard in dirty conditions and had little to
show for it. So, Scotts Run, itself, had nothing but a
beer garden and a post office, until the Shack came
along.
Q: What was the Shack?
JJHB 0881
BB: Well, when my Mom first got to Stump Town
schoolhouse to start the program, she was given an
empty schoolhouse. But, she soon outgrew it,
because of all the programs that she had put into it.
So, she began looking around for a bigger building
and she saw a company store down near the railroad
tracks that used to be a horse stable and there was
nothing in it. So, she went to the head of the
Pursglove Coal Company and asked if she could have
it and, after harassing him for awhile, he gave in and
gave her the old place. So, she cleaned it out and put
straw on the floor and the shelves that used to hold
food, she filled with books and she put a shower in the
back and the kids had to pay to use a shower. Just 5
cents, or so, but the reason she did that was because
she felt kids should learn to earn to do something --
earn their way to do something -- and, not just get
everything for free, but work so that they could get
something.
Q: Your Mom, also, learned that, with the exception of the Shack, she wasn't going to get too much -- I'll hold that question. Chip, I don't think there's anything, we're just going to have to either move the mike in. I mean, it's a regular, consistent, every minute and a half a truck goes by. So
WEST VIRGINIA HISTORY FILM PROJECT,
ROLL 111
BURGER INTERVIEW, TAKE 3, ROLL 271,
SOUND 111
Q: Betty Jane, tell me, in a paragraph, tell me the
little anecdote about your Mother's encounter with the
coal company when she tried to get seeds for the
garden program.
JJHB 1011
BB: My mom felt that if the people didn't have
enough food, that the logical thing would be to grow
their own, because I think one of my Mom's major
themes in life was "self sufficiency." And, so, she
thought that they could grow their own garden. So,
she went to the head of the coal company and asked
for money for seeds and they turned her down. When
I think about that now, I think that really wouldn't
have cost very much, it probably would have been a
tax write-off. I don't think the coal companies really
saw the people for the lives that they were in. Maybe,
the company didn't see that the people that worked for
them had any value on their own. Otherwise, how
could they turn away from what they were creating
out there?
Q: Your Mother said that we need to learn from
people who are suffering. What did your Mother
learn from people who were suffering all around her
for six years, seven years?
JJHB 1112
BB: I think my Mom learned that when people suffer,
somehow, most of them survive. A lot of them don't,
because she buried dead children, dressed them for
their funeral. But, I think she saw that, under
incredible odds, these people were going to survive.
Although, they were going to survive, maybe, in the
middle-class kind of experience that the rest of us
have. But, surviving and living through the
conditions that they did, and not being hopelessly
depressed, or falling apart completely. Somehow,
they live in those ugly, little places and didn't dress
very well, according to other people's standards. But,
just making it from day to day, going through the
things that they had to go through, I mean, dirty jobs
underground and nothing else to do and no other
businesses. Just isolated out there. Somehow, they
made it through.
JJHB 1200
Although, my Mom told me one time that she lived
longer than a lot of shack kids who were younger than
she was. She would show me the newspaper and an
obituary and she would say, "Oh, this used to be one
of my kids out at Scotts Run and there they are, they
died." And, I think she realized later, that because
they grew up in such unhealthy surroundings, maybe
their drinking water probably wasn't very clean and
they didn't eat right, and maybe the air wasn't that
good, either. And, I don't think they had a chance
compared to her. But, I think, coming from some
more privilege and with her sense of religion and
social justice, I think that the people of Scotts Run
taught her a lot about living, about what's important.
Family, extended family. I think she learned from
that.
Q: But the lessons that she learned were not
commonly learned by the more affluent people of the
surroundings.
JJHB 1301
BB: No, and sometimes, sometimes I think the people
of Morgantown turned their faces away from Scotts
Run. A lot of them didn't know that it existed. Most
of them had never been there, so, she put the kids on a
bus and she took them into town. One time, she took
a group of high school kids to a restaurant and one of
the people on that little group was a member of "U
High School." And, his name was George Fumich.
He told me, much later, he said, "When your Mom
took us to have lunch at a restaurant, we were very
scared; and she taught us that we could do this and
this was the first time we'd sat down and ordered from
a menu, but we were all very scared." And, George
went on to be, I think, head of the College of Mining
Resources at West Virginia University.
Q: Aside from that viewpoint in your mind, what
do you think that the people of Scotts Run, the
miners, miners' families thought of her?
JJHB 1410
BB: Mom said that she never really got any hostility
from the people out there. They were very open to
her. There was no resistance. I think maybe the
parents were glad that the kids had something to do
other than play around the coal cars or maybe hang
around the beer garden where they weren't supposed
to be. Because she gave them something to do in a lot
of ways and began to give other opportunities to the
people, like the cobbler shop or the choirs or the
plays. And, when she started the library, The library
was the first thing that she put in after the Sunday
School. Books. The wider world of books. Once
you read a lot of books, you are really never the same,
even though you are not going to travel all those
places.
JJHB 1485
And, there was one guy who kind of hung around and
read a lot of books and his name was Walt Sura.
And, he went on to become accepted into a university
in California without any entrance exam. But, that
hooked him. And, even though he couldn't go to
school, he ended up joining the Army and went later.
I think she just opened a lot of worlds to people where
they had no options.
Q: She, also, came though to see a down-side to
help and that was that there was a culture dependency
that these people, as the New Deal moved in, they
became dependent on government. How did she react
to that? Tell me about that and tell me how she
reacted.
JJHB 1546
BB: As the welfare system came in under a great
emergency, and of course, very needed; she used the
expression "being on the dole, being dependent on
other people to take care of you" and, I think she
always fought that. She tried to put in a community
council where the people themselves were on the
council.
Q: Sorry.
BB: That was the logical place.
BURGER INTERVIEW, TAKE 4 MARK IT.
Q: Betty Jane, tell me what your Mom's opinion
of government programs was and how it created a
sense of people being "on the dole."
JJHB 1602
BB: I think the good thing about government
programs was that when times got rough, they finally
stepped in and helped people who were nearly
starving.
Q: Why don't you start with "My Mom?"
BB: I was going to say "but", I was going to say
--
Q: No, put it in your Mom's experience.
JJHB 1629
BB: Mom was very grateful that the people finally
showed up to help her Scotts Run folks. Whether,
they were the Red Cross or the Quaker, all Quakers,
or, also, the Federal Government. And, the programs
came in and people were helped. But, what began to
happen was that, as so many programs came in, she
began to see a sense of dependency. She called it
being "on the dole" and so, the people would stop
maybe working on their own or trying to be
self-sufficient or find their own creative solutions to
being independent. They would just wait for the
check or wait for some help and not really think about
living their own lives and being in charge of their own
lives.
Q: She didn't go for that?
BB: No, because, well, see, I'm starting "no, because."
Ask me the question, again.
Q: Why was her philosophy different?
BB: I think.
Q: What was her philosophy that was so
different?
JJHB 1721
BB: I think Mom's philosophy of life was that you are
in charge of your destiny and that if you have a piece
of, if you have a say in your destiny, then that gives
you dignity. For instance, with the Community
Council that was run by the people from Scotts Run
themselves. They decided what they were going to
do. They put up a bulletin board. They started a
playground. The chefs. People didn't just come in
and hand out food and have it all cooked and ready
for them, but she got boys from the community to
cook the food. And, if you wanted a shower, which
cost five cents, you had to earn the money in a certain
way. So that there were logical consequences. There
was growth. There was working towards something.
There was involvement, instead of just passively
being taken care of.
Q: In the end, what do you think your Mom
accomplished?
JJHB 1809
BB: I think my Mom gave the people of Scotts Run
hope. There were people who finished high school
and college. There was a boy named Sanford Luther
Fox, who was a great writer. He was very artistic and
he was from a farming family and the farmers weren't
as bad off as the coal miners. He ended up being
Chief of Correspondence at the White House. So,
there were people who were able to get out of that
place that didn't have hardly, that had hardly, any
options and find that they had choices in life and that
they could be happy. That they could be healthy.
That they didn't have to stay there all their lives. That
there was a whole world out there for them to conquer
or experience in whatever way they did.
Q: Do you ever think that she sensed, or do you,
let me just talk about you. Looking back on it now, it
just seems though, unfortunately, that your Mom's
experience fits this pattern. That West Virginians
need help from the outside.
JJHB 1908
BB: I think what my Mom did differently was that,
even though she went into Scotts Run and brought
them resources, that she tried to empower them. She
had them make decisions or she led them towards
making decisions about what they wanted to do. She
never forced anybody to do anything. I think she
provided joy and laughter and music and theater and
just a whole realm of experiences that they could
choose from. I think she widened their world. I
guess, maybe, you could call her a "teacher" for doing
that. But, I think the difference was that they could
make decisions about what they wanted to do and I
think the best example of that was the Community
Council.
Q: When, towards the end, Eleanor Roosevelt's
plan for people in Scotts Run. Did your Mother
encounter Eleanor?
BB: My Mom met Eleanor Roosevelt twice. She
came in a long, black limousine and stepped out and
Mom --
Q: Just out of film, we will pick it up
BB: OK.
BURGER INTERVIEW, TAKE 4, ROLL 272, SOUND 112
Q: Bettijane, tell me about your Mother's, your
Mom's encounter with the First Lady, Eleanor
Roosevelt.
JJHB 2021
BB: This big, long, black limousine rolls down into
Scotts Run and Eleanor Roosevelt steps out and my
Mom was standing there with a children's wig on and
a children's dress because she is having a party with
her kids and they are all dressed-up like kids. So,
here she is meeting the First Lady with some absurd
outfit on. The second time, Eleanor Roosevelt went
up to the door of one of the houses, or shacks, I guess
we should call them, and my Mom had been there
overnight helping a new Mother who had just had a
baby. And, my Mom had on pajamas and she was
scratching herself because she had bedbugs. And, she
went to the door, in her pajamas, scratching herself,
and there was Eleanor Roosevelt.
JJHB 2090
But, I think that's important because when she met
Eleanor Roosevelt she was doing her business with
Scotts Run. She wasn't sitting in an office, shuffling
papers; but, she was involving herself in the
community and that how's she met her. I'm sure my
Mom would have liked to have met, Eleanor
Roosevelt under different circumstances, in her best
dress and with gloves, but, now that I think about it;
she met her doing it just the way she was.
Q: Did she have an opinion about the
Government's arrival in Scotts Run?
JJHB 2141
BB: I think that Mom was glad that the Roosevelt
Administration had noticed Scotts Run. It had
actually begun during the Hoover Administration.
The Secretary at the White House had sent Mom a
letter and said "we appreciate all the work you are
doing out there." So, somehow the word had gotten
to Washington, whether it was through the Christian
Science Monitor or different Presbyterian magazines,
or whatever. But, she was glad she came and, of
course, out of that came Arthurdale and the other
planned communities. But, I think Mom was always
trying to bridge the gulf between the "haves" and the
"have-nots." Scotts Run was certainly a "have-not,"
and the "haves" had a lot to give to the "have-nots."
And, even though Scotts Run was only nine miles
away from Morgantown, it was a world of difference
that many people were afraid to cross.
Q: Let's, a, completely change gears, if you can. That's an airplane, I've got to cut for that. I'll give you a cue to start your answer. All right.
TAKE 5
JJHB 2251
BB: The women of West Virginia today, I think, have
a lot of problems that my Mom saw back during the
Great Depression. I think there is still isolation, low
self-esteem, people not finishing high school,
dependency, domestic violence. Mostly, isolation. As
President, one of the best things that I ever did was to
go around the state and visit the Chapters. And, I
found that getting out of Charleston and going into
smaller communities was a whole difference. I
listened to people who were afraid, feminists, who
were NOW members, who were afraid to identify
themselves as NOW members in communities who
had moved in from other communities and were still
told, after twenty and thirty years, that they were
"outsiders." I think it's easier in Charleston where
you have larger organizations coming together and
supporting each other. But, it is a whole different
world out there, and, every community has it's own
character.
Q: Let me interrupt. What do you think are
some of the strengths that Appalachian women, West
Virginia women can draw on as a counterpart to their
struggle? What are the strengths that women here
have? Are there special strengths that land, family,
tradition, community; are the things here to draw on
them might not be in, tell me about them.
JJHB 2396
BB: I think West Virginia women are very loyal. I
think they are fighters. They have grown up
alongside men who have been in the Labor Union
struggle and they have seen that and they have been
strengthened by it. The women out on the picket lines
or organizing clubs like the Daughters of Mother
Jones and empowering themselves. We talked to
women during the Labor Union struggle who told us
that it was the first time they had written letters or
stood by picket lines, or written to Congressmen. I
think the Labor Unions and the women's movement, I
think we have learned things from each other. I think
the Labor Unions, in a way, are more tolerant and
somewhat supportive of us. They have marched with
us in parades and, on the other hand, I think Labor
Unions and the whole character that that's given to
this State that makes us very feisty. So, even under
extraordinary conditions of poverty, or whatever, that
West Virginia women endure.
Q: How important is family in West
Virginia?
JJHB 2494
BB: Family is as important as watching those
beautiful seasons come up on the mountains four
times a year as the seasons change to the different
colors. I think, sometimes, it keeps people here when
they could go away. Or, they go away and they come
back. But, I think, watching what has happened in
this State and maybe being a part of it, somehow it all
mixes in together and things happen. Organizations
happen. Struggle happens and I think it makes us
strong.
Q: Do you, when you are away, do you miss
West Virginia? Hold on, for a second, OK? Just tell
me, yes --
BB: No, I don't.